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Marcus Seldon's avatar

I don't know if this alone explains your observations. The reason is that dating "markets" seem to be pretty segregated by class and subculture.

There may be more men than women overall, but there are more educated professional women than educated professional men (at least among under-40 people), and most educated professionals want to date within their class. So I wouldn't expect much of an imbalance in that group.

But on the flip side, certain subcultures have skewed gender ratios. You describe yourself as mathy and post-rat, so I suspect your circles tend to be nerdy (correct me if I'm wrong). It's well known that nerdy circles skew male, and so nerdy men either have to get lucky and meet a nerd girl who's into them, or do a lot of self-improvement to make themselves more appealing to comparatively less nerdy women. I suspect that more than overall demographics explains your observations.

Wesley Fenza's avatar

I am flabbergasted by this post. It's appropriate that it ends with "no evopsych required" because reading it feels eerily similar to reading evopsych. It takes a (true) observation, then builds a whole conceptual edifice to explain it, based on pure speculation.

The main premise makes no sense. Assuming that women are in more demand than men (questionable, but I'll get to that), why would that imply that they shouldn't take an active role in seeking out the men they want to date? It's true that the more in-demand party doesn't need to seek out partners. Partner will come to them. But they won't be the highest-quality partners!

While there is less demand for men as a class than women, high-quality men are in great demand. Use whatever criteria you want, but as soon as you add in any filtering at all (e.g. education, intelligence, conscientiousness, EQ, fitness, facial features, etc.) , there aren't enough of them to go around. So if your theory was correct, those men, being high in demand, would passively sit back and allow women to approach them. Your theory predicts that the higher quality and in-demand a man is, the more passive he will be. Does this match your observations of the world?

Dating can often be analogized to employment matching. It's not a prefect analogy, but there is a similar dynamic at play. There tend to be more available workers than jobs, so most employers take a passive (yin) role. They'll post the job opening on a job board and wait for the applications to roll in. But the employers who need the best employees don't do that. They hire headhunters to go out and find the best employees, and approach them to ask if they're interested in a career change. They go to colleges and professional schools to actively find the most promising students. Mark Zuckerberg is out there offering unsolicited 9-figure deals to top AI researchers because he doesn't want the average employee. He wants the best, so he affirmatively seeks them out and makes an offer.

Dating works the same way. Even if your math checked out, by being passive, a women would be able to get a boyfriend or a husband, but it wouldn't be a top quality one. If you want the best partner, you have to be active about it.

Beyond that, your theory's main flaw is that it uses national data when dating pools tend to be local. If gender roles were actually determined by relative demand, you'd see wildly different roles in different cities. San Francisco is notoriously male-skewed, and New York City is famously female-skewed, at least in the relevant dating market. If your theory checked out, all the statistics you cite would be extra-skewed in SF and flipped in NYC. But that's not what we see. If anything, the gender roles are much more flexible in SF despite a vast oversupply of men.

The much more parsimonious explanation of the existing gender norms is that, on the aggregate, men and women want different things from the dating process. Men tend to want casual dates and novel sexual experiences, while women tend to want serious relationships leading to marriage. On average, men want to increase their body count while women want to keep theirs low. This means that men, as a group, are much less discriminating about who they are willing to date, because to them, the date (especially if sex is on the table) is the goal. That's why you see the dynamics where men are focused on how to "get" a woman and women are more focused on how to "keep" a man. Unless the gender ratio gets extremely skewed, dates with women will always be in higher demand than dates with men.

But that still doesn't mean women should be passive. Men and women are both cowards. Pretty much anyone who has the option to get dates without putting in effort, being vulnerable, or risking rejection will default to that mode. This applies to most women but also to the highest quality men. A man who passively gets lots of attention from women won't feel the need to affirmatively seek out and solicit dates. But unless your tastes are very different from other women, those are exactly the men you want. Of course you can define "high-quality" as including the part where he does the asking, but that's just overindexing on one trait to the exclusion of all others.

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